(110)

Mr. Porter could not but regret that something
like a threat had been held out with regard to the
effect which the course taken by independent
members of Council would eventually have. No
satisfactory answer had yet been given, in refer-
ence to the question which had been put, on the
subject of fixing boundary lines for the projected
settlements, and their extent.

The Colonial Secretary.---I beg to remind hon-
orab'e members that, in all, the discussions on
this Bill, official members of Council have, very
earnestly, repudiated any desire of pressing it
against any strong opposition, or manifestation of
public feeling. His Excellency the Governor, in
his speech on the opening of Council, distinctly
stated that the measure now before the Council
had been prepared, because the one adopted by
the Legislative Council of New South Wales had
been generally deemed unsatisfactory, as not
calculated to effect a speedy settlement of the
question. With respect to the intimation that
Government has now no alternative but to revert
to the Bill of New South Wales-and which has
been wrongfully construed into a threat-it must
be remembered that Sir George Gipps' Bill is
now the law of the land, and can, of course, re-
main as it stands, with such modifications as are
pointed out in instructions from the Secretary of
State. One of those instructions is, that the same
rule, as near as is possible, shall be applied to
individual claimants as that which has been agreed
upon between the Government and the New
Zealand Company. For this provision was
made in the Bill now withdrawn. The opposi-
tion to the present measure has certainly sprung
up rather suddenly and unexpectedly; but I can
scarcely believe that the non-official members of
this Council attribute to the official members that
with which they are charged out of doors. It
has been publicly stated, and published that some
trick has been attempted, but which was first
detected and exposed by the non-official members.
One writer had gone so far as to say that a job
had been concocted, and that the entire measure
was framed with a view to obtain the property of
claimants by a trick. I will not admit that the
Government has lent itself to any thing so despi-
cable. I mention the fact now, in order to give
Mr. Porter and Mr. Earp, the honorable mem-
bers adverted to, an opportunity of contradicting
the statement. Those gentlemen have never, in
any stage of the proceedings in this Council,
uttered opinions so disparaging to the Govern-
ment. The Government proposed the Bill, now
withdrawn, as a boon to the colonists, and the
simple question was, whether they would accept
it or not.

Mr. Porter had never accused the Government
of any trick. He himself had not taken any part
in the proceedings out of doors. The Attorney-
General, on a former day had stated to him, that
the lease he proposed was available property for
sale, or otherwise disposing of it, but on the fol-
lowing day, to his astonishment, he stated in
Council, that the object in making a lease was to
prevent the sale of lands granted.

The Governor remarked that a lease for thirty
or sixty years, more especially where a portion of
able property in a mercantile point of view, the
same as any other lands held under similar
tenure.

Mr. Earp said the impression created on his
own mind, by the amendments proposed regard-
ing leases, and the explanations given of those
amendments was, that their adoption would put
the settlers in a worse position than that which
they occupied when the Bill was originally pro-
posed. The same opinions were entertained by
his honorable friend (Mr. Porter), and this im-
pression gave rise to the opinions and published
statements to which the Colonial Secretary had
alluded.

The Colonial Secretary would ask to what had
they given rise?-A false assertion!

Mr. Earp would repeat, that the conversation
which he had overheard with a member of the
Executive Council (the Attorney-General), and
the explanation of the amendments, together
with what he had heard out of doors, left an im-
pression upon his mind that the object of the
clause regarding leases was to prevent parties
from selling their lands. They had admitted
that.

The Colonial Secretary must say that the
Government could not be answerable for the false
reports to which idle or mischievous persons
might give currency; and members of council, as
well as other intelligent members of the commu-
nity, should be more cautious in giving credence
to such rumours. It had been expressly stated
that Government had endeavoured to carry this
important measure by a trick, and that the two
honorable members present had succeeded in de-
tecting the job.

Mr. Earp felt it necessary to repeat again, that
both Mr. Porter and himself were certain that the
proposed amendments to the Bill, so far from
benefiting the settlers, would, if carried, inflict
upon them a deep injury. He (Mr. Earp), cer-
tainly understood the Attorney General, in a
conversation which, he must admit, was carried
on in an under tone, that the object of the altera-
tion regarding leases was, to prevent lands now
claimed from being made the object of bargain
and sale.

The Attorney-General rose, but gave way to
the Governor.

His Excellency said he thought he should be
enabled to set this matter right. The Attorney-
Ganeral, on being asked (as the honorable mem-
ber has said) an important question in an under
tone, gave his opinion as a lawyer, rather than as
a Member of Council. The question was, would
the granting of a lease give to the property an
available value? A person purchasing the interest
in a sixty years' lease, would know that he must,
at the expiration of that period, give up posses-
sion. The granting of a lease to the claimants
could not be considered as equal to a fee-simple
in the estate, and this distinction appeared to
have been overlooked by many gentlemen who
had taken alarm. He would repeat, however,
that a lease of sixty years, of an extensive and
valuable estate, was an available property.

The Attorney-General said, that the lease would